Shania Bhopa on freezing her eggs at 25, artificial intelligence and women’s health

Shania Bhopa, founder of @wellbyshania and the Do It All Girl online community, joins Youth Champions Paniz and Shreya for an inspirational conversation about young women’s fertility choices and empowerment. Shania shares her personal experience with freezing her eggs at the age of 25 and how it impacted her views on women’s reproductive health. They discuss Shania’s PhD studies in global health, women’s role and voice in health care, and the impact of artificial intelligence on personalizing women’s health care. Shania challenges the status quo and encourages young women to live confidently, explore their health rights and become global citizens. 

*SHE SOARS, funded by Global Affairs Canada, is the Sexual and reproductive Health and Economic empowerment Supporting Out-of-school Adolescent girls’ Rights and Skills project. Learn more at: https://care.ca/shesoarsproject

Episode transcripts are available in French and English at: care.ca/shesoars.

Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in the SHE SOARS podcast are the speakers’ own and do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, standards and policies of CARE Canada. The SHE SOARS podcast is a youth-led initiative that provides space for young people to discuss global Sexual and Reproductive Health and Rights with the purpose of raising awareness in Canada. Listeners acknowledge that the material and information presented in the podcast are for informational purposes only and do not constitute advice or services. The podcast is for private, non-commercial use and speakers do not necessarily reflect any organization they work for.

Chapters

• 3:31 Shania’s decision to freeze her eggs at 25
• 12:17 Women’s reproductive health globally
• 15:18 Insights from Shania’s global health studies
• 17:56 The role of artificial intelligence in women’s health
• 20:50 Building girls’ confidence, collaboration and advocacy

Transcript

[00:00:00] Paniz: Hi, and welcome to SHE SOARS. Her voice. Her rights. 

[00:00:05] Jacqueline: We are CARE Canada's Youth Champions, a group of young people across Canada who are passionate advocates for Sexual and Reproductive health and rights (SRHR).

[00:00:13] Paniz: We're excited to discuss and raise awareness about young women's rights and choices in Kenya, Uganda and Zambia. ​

[00:00:18] Jacqueline: Together, we will explore how these global issues connect to our lives as Canadian youth and discover ways in which we can all take action. 

[00:00:26] Paniz: We will also talk about the SHE SOARS project, which improves access to health and education, which are areas we want to see change in. Join us!

[00:00:37] Shreya: Hi everyone. My name is Shreya Rao, and I'm one of the members of the Youth Public Engagement Champions here at CARE Canada. I'm also a host of the SHE SOARS podcast.

[00:00:46] On this podcast, we explore a variety of topics in the Sexual and Reproductive Health and Rights space and youth-friendly health services. We also share insights into youth experiences both in Canada and globally. Today on the podcast, we want to highlight someone who is a powerhouse in the health space.

[00:01:02] I’m so excited to introduce Shania Bhopa. At just 25 years old, she made the powerful decision to freeze her eggs, sparking a conversation around reproductive choices and empowerment. Shania is a Global Health PhD candidate and Vanier Scholar. She is also the co-founder of the national nonprofit, The Canadian Courage Project, and the authour of a children's book called “Gurk and Bianca on a Path to Mindfulness.”

[00:01:26] Shania most recently built one of Canada's first Artificial Intelligence (AI) and medicine curriculum. She also brings her expertise in women's health to her community on social media, challenging the status quo and empowering girls to Do It All. I am so excited have you here today and have you chatting with us about all of the work that you do because I am an amazing, big fan of yours and I’m heavily engaged in your work. 

[00:01:48] Shania: Thank you so much for having me today. I feel so lucky to spend this time with both of you and with all of our listeners. 

[00:01:55] Paniz: Hi everyone. My name is Paniz and I'm another host of the podcast. Once again, I just want to mention how excited we are to have Shania on our podcast today. Without further ado, I want to ask her to introduce herself and tell us a little bit more.

[00:02:09] Shania: Thank you both for having me. I am almost in tears; I'm so excited to be here and I'm so appreciative of this experience. I was named after Shania Twain. My parents loved her. And I was a child raised in an immigrant family. I am one of four children and my parents sacrificed their dreams to make sure that their children's dreams could come true.

[00:02:34] Shania: And I’m forever grateful for that experience. I'm so lucky to be alive here today. I grew up a really sick child and that informed my life and why I do the work that I do today. It informs why I have special attention and care regarding health literacy and empowerment for specially young girls and women. I think that oftentimes when we are raised to feel empowered about our health, we are more likely as adults to seek out opportunities to promote our health and well-being. I just want every single girl in the world to feel like she is capable of achieving everything she has ever dreamt of. So that is my life mission. And I do that through being a community member, through research or digitally online. Those are all vessels for this overall life mission that I have. 

[00:03:27] Shreya: That was so inspiring. Thank you so much. I guess the first thing that I want to learn a lot more about is one of the biggest parts of your channels on social media, Instagram, and it's the journey of freezing your eggs. So I'm curious to learn more about why you decided to make that choice at 25 years old or what the thought process was behind it. 

[00:03:47] Shania: Excellent question. I, like many women have lots of career plans and goals and I have these ambitious dreams. I always felt very focused on achieving each and every single dream. Until it was Christmas and me and my older sister, we were having some cake, and she asked me a question and she said, “You have this grand career plan but have you ever thought about how being a mom and having a family one day influences that career plan? And what is the synergy between the two?” At 25 years old, I had never been asked that question. You know, that has never even crossed my mind. I think, as women and as people, we often hyper-focus on how we can reduce the barriers regarding our career and leadership, but we don't ask ourselves what systems need to be in place to have all aspects of our life feel in equilibrium. So with that question, I was like, I have absolutely no idea what my 10 year plan is to be a mom. And so that's when she just shared a few statistics like into your mid-thirties your fertility, starts to decline. We all assume that we're all the same, that we all have the same amount of eggs.

[00:05:12] We all have the same chance of having a child naturally and conceiving naturally, but that isn't always the case for many women. And so with all those questions and insights, I went down a rabbit hole of research. Being in academia, I am very fortunate to have access to journals and databases so I honestly just read so many papers on reproductive health. I learned that based on my career plans, I ideally want 3 children but I want to start having kids in my mid-30s. And if my fertility is declining, how can I give my future self the best possible chance of having options if she does experience infertility or if she does experience difficulty conceiving naturally.

[00:06:01] So with that question and search, everything I do on a daily basis is for my future self. And I thought, what tools in my toolkit right now can I use? So I booked a fertility consultation. And if you are in Ontario, fertility consultations are free. They are covered by our OHIP (Ontario Health Insurance Plan). I learned about my ovarian reserve, which is the test that you do to see if you're a viable candidate for fertility support. During this process, I learned that my insurance at the time would be covering my medication costs, which was a large burden of the financial [aspect] associated with freezing your eggs. And I decided before my 25th birthday that I was going to freeze my eggs and go through a 14 day process in hopes of giving my future self options. Now, I know there are various challenges that women are facing worldwide regarding just even discussing reproductive health decisions. And so I'm so fortunate to have a sister that highlighted the importance of thinking about these big questions that we all have and preparing for future self. And it really just ingrained in me the importance of accessible, non-judgmental information for young women globally and how I could share my experience online, trying my best to empower reproductive health information. 

[00:07:20] Shreya: Thank you. Yeah, I was going to say it sounds really nice to be in an environment where those conversations are happening because I guess without your sister that might not have even happened. So is it because of the way that your household was or conversations with friends and family that made you want to have this whole process publicly documented? And did you have any fears doing that? 

[00:07:41] Shania: I was petrified. I want to emphasize this. I had absolutely zero intention of ever sharing this online, with my colleagues, with close friends. I wanted to keep it very private, personally. It's a very intimate process. Every single day you are on hormones, you are going for blood tests, you are going for ultrasounds.

[00:08:05] It's very intimate and emotionally draining, and especially I was working full-time during this whole process. I took no time off. And so I was very nervous of also the stigma and the questions associated with this procedure. I think we don't talk about infertility. We don't talk about fertility procedures.

[00:08:23] We don't openly talk about freezing our eggs or family planning at all. I'm so grateful for key players in my life at the time. I have quite a large network of individuals in health care and various people, especially my sister. She said, “Even as a physician, I never hear about the patient experience. I never hear about someone who has an academic background and can speak to the research confidently, but also is going through this as a patient and seeing that side of things. It will make me a better physician to know what that experience is like.” So thinking through all those opinions. I said, you know what, let's just see what happens.

[00:09:05] I posted one video and it ended up going viral. Lots of women around the world had various questions and the questions that I had previously. And that's when I decided, I am so lucky to a be alive, to have the opportunity to have technology at my fingertips and have the academic background that I did to be able to share information in an evidence-based, informative way.

[00:09:32] I think there's a lot of misinformation on the internet regarding reproductive health and I wanted to try to empower women. I just ended up saying, whatever, let's just go see what happens. 

[00:09:46] Paniz: That's amazing. I've seen your journey through social media and stuff, but it feels different when you're talking about it here today as well. I think you're absolutely right. I mean, I remember seeing that video actually, and I had so many questions as well because like you said, it's not something that is openly talked about.

[00:10:00] I didn't even know what freezing your eggs were up until maybe 6 months ago. So it's definitely an important topic and in general shows that a lot of things regarding women's health are not always publicly talked about. It seems like it's something that you should be like embarrassed about or ashamed of, but it's completely the opposite. What I was wondering is, what were the reactions of people who found out? Like you said, you didn't plan on doing it very publicly, but then the video blew up right? So what were the reactions of people in your community or even in your family seeing you as someone that they now look up to or someone that took this very important step?

[00:10:36] Shania: I would say overall, my parents think I'm bold. They were like, holy Shania, the fact that you're sharing this online, good for you, but I think my parents were a bit worried about how thick my skin was. And being in academia, your skin is so thick. There is no criticism that can rock me at this point in life. There were three groups of individuals, I would argue, in the comments section of the egg freezing series. Group A were women who opened up to me about their infertility experiences or their struggles conceiving naturally. A lot of women in their forties were reaching out saying, I wish someone talked about this when I was your age.

[00:11:17] I’m so grateful you're doing that for the next generation. Especially being from a South Asian background, family planning and the cultural norms and social pressures associated with being a mother are slightly different in comparison to Western norms. Category two were individuals who had absolutely no idea what egg freezing even meant. They actually thought I put my eggs in the freezer. They were really confused about this whole concept. And then group three were angry men. You know, it just goes back to what we're seeing politically right now in the world. There isn't always going to be this happy, empowering voice regarding reproductive health and women's rights. That did showcase throughout the series quite prominently. 

[00:12:08] Paniz: It's honestly really hard to take that first step and talk about something like this. But I think that you were able to open the way for so many other women, including myself and Shreya. And it's just amazing.

[00:12:22] It fits well into what we do here at CARE. We do a lot of work in Uganda, Zambia and Kenya. My next question was how do you think this fits globally into a conversation around empowering women to take control of their reproductive health? Because as you said in Western society and other places in the world, there's a different perspective regarding women's health and how a woman should be in control of her reproductive health. It's not just another place around the world. It's the case here as well. But how do you think that this kind of conversation fits around empowering women? 

[00:12:59] Shania: I just want to start off by saying it is a universal right to have empowering reproductive health information. It is not something that should be gatekept. It should not be something that we only have at our dinner tables. It needs to be in our curriculum. It needs to be mainstream media. I'm so lucky to have the opportunity to try to start breaking down those barriers.

[00:13:23] But I think there's quite a bit of work we need to do. My journey with my fertility has strengthened my belief in the importance of global reproductive rights and accurate information, advocating that all women deserve unbiased, clear guidance to make their own health decisions within Canada [and] outside of Canada. And this also goes hand-in-hand with how are we as women making space for other women to join the conversations at the table? I think this is where this podcast is a beautiful vessel for that. You are doing such amazing work by opening up that conversation. I'd argue that empowering reproductive health in Canada looks very different than it would outside of Canada and there are different collaborative measures that need to be done. There needs to be a bit more co-design regarding how we open up space for women in other countries as well to have that optionality and be empowered 

[00:14:28] Right now, I'm talking about women being empowered to book a fertility consultation whereas in various places in the world, they don't even have the option to have that educational discussion with a provider. Right? Understanding where the gaps exist. We are global citizens and we have the power and the opportunity to engage in collaboration with countries around the world. And I think my big question for youth today is: How are you promoting collaboration with others? And how are you bridging those gaps? Because we can build echo chambers but I think co-design and collaborative inquiry are necessary for global change. 

[00:15:15] Paniz: You're absolutely right. We're talking about this and we noticed that you are also pursuing a PhD in the field of health and AI (artificial intelligence). Correct? 

[00:15:24] Shania: I'm in the department of Global Health. My PhD dissertation is on co-design, community-based participatory methodology and co-developing healthy, active living interventions to reduce the risk of chronic disease for newcomer kids.

[00:15:38] Paniz: That's very impressive. It's critical to ensure collaboration within different countries and different organizations. We do want to see change on a global level and advocate for those who need a bigger light on the issues that they're facing. What excites you most about the work you're doing about how changes can benefit women in areas like fertility, maternal health, and even well-being? Because mental health plays a big role in this as well. So what excites you the most about your work that you're doing?

[00:16:10] Shania: So I decided to specialize on community-based participatory methodology for the sole reason that right now, in health care, in medicine, we see such a top down approach. 

[00:16:22] We have individuals who are experts in the field leading these studies with no patient integration. And so co-design is essentially, you are building an intervention, a tool with the end-user from idea all the way through testing to delivery. Right now in Canada, in Ontario, it takes two years for a technology or an app to be actually implemented in clinical settings and used.

[00:16:54] But then we're essentially two years behind in technology upgrades, right? So if we are co-designing health care, educational services and advocacy programs, we are going to have a more successful opportunity to empower women and improve their health and well-being because women are effectively co-developing every service and intervention. I'm so excited for this to fill a gap that exists so it actually improves the success of all our healthcare interventions. We should be using co-design in every health research study and clinical trial because we are spending our dollars in effectively if we are not including patients.

[00:17:35] Shreya: I absolutely agree with that. I think there should be a really strong emphasis on actually looping in people who are affected by decisions that are made by quote unquote more powerful people. it's impossible to serve society and the people that you're looking to serve without having their opinions because they obviously know their needs the best. So thank you for highlighting that.

[00:17:56] I'd like to do a little bit of a pivot to talk about artificial intelligence and your passion and work in that space. I want to ask, do you think you could see AI playing a pivotal role in reproductive health? How might these sorts of data-driven tools help women make more informed decisions about health, including maybe family planning? 

[00:18:17] Shania: I want to start off by saying it is so normal to be a little bit fearful of AI. You know, I feel like we all still have our concerns and there is still some hesitation around it. And granted, it is such a new tool. However, my passion for AI I really started from a place of that our time on earth is finite. And I talk about this quite a bit on social media, but we're so lucky to be alive. We only have 4000 weeks. How can we optimize our time? I feel like if we can make people more efficient, we're going to be happier and healthier at work. We're going to reduce our burnout rates and have more free time with our families doing the things that we love. So that's the place I came from loving AI, using AI every single day. I think in regards to AI in young women's reproductive health and the impact that it can have, I see it really advancing personalized health insights. I think AI can analyze vast amounts of health data from hormone levels, menstrual cycle patterns to lifestyle factors. 

[00:19:20] Shania: There's space and opportunity in offering insights tailored to each individual. I think for young women, this could mean understanding fertility windows, early detection of health issues and guidance on how our lifestyle changes might impact our health. This can look like AI-driven apps, but it can also be integrated in clinic. I imagine that when you are at your family doctor's office, and you are asking the critical questions that you need to be asking, whether you have endometriosis, or you are just looking to make proactive choices, if AI is integrated in a personalized way, we will be empowering our patients and women everywhere with tangible, actionable solutions for them to take home, integrate within their lifestyle, within their conversations at the dinner table and make solution-oriented decisions regarding their reproductive health. 

[00:20:17] I think that it can empower women with their choices and education. Knowledge is power and hopefully it enables women to feel confident in the education that they do receive at these appointments that go far beyond just the five minute conversation you have with the physician or the nurse. Right? 

[00:20:33] Paniz: That's amazing. Thank you so much for talking about that. And I think it really will help so many people be able to see how, like you said, AI can be used for good, specifically in the realm of female health. You do such an amazing job at advocating for everybody, and we both very much look up to that. I'm sure a lot of youth in the country as well look to how they can advocate or what kind of impact they can make within their community. Like you said, you had certain challenges as well regarding different options like freezing your eggs. Would you be able to talk a little bit about having to advocate for yourself and if you experienced any pushback from doctors or no access to information for people who are looking to follow in your footsteps and do the same kind of advocacy for health and concerns that they might not even know they have?

[00:21:21] Shania: Great question. I have two answers. The first is related to my master's thesis, which was essentially on lifestyle medicine education at the time of diagnosis of a mental health concern for women between the ages of 14 and 25. From that study that I ran, patient-physician communication is critical. However, empowerment that you feel when you are in clinic is 100 per cent based on your confidence. So really, I would argue that the question we should be asking everyone, honestly, is how can we improve confidence overall amongst young women to speak up for themselves and ask the questions and be fearless when they are in a clinical setting? Because that confidence then transcends across every aspect of girl's life whether they're in clinic or they're in class asking the questions, or they're speaking up for themselves with a partner that they have or advocating for their dreams and their goals. The answer to part two of this question and advocating for yourself – not only personally but in your community – this is a quote I share online all the time. It's in my Ted talk. I'm teaching at Harvard and it's in that deck, “You need to be living your life so that seven-year-old you is in awe and 70-year-old you is so, so proud.” So how can we be advocating for ourselves on a personal matter, but then also for our community and the women in our lives?

[00:22:52] I think this comes down to three questions. I want everyone to ask themselves: What is your life mission? What is it that really lights your soul on fire, that you hope to leave the planet a little bit better than when you got here? Question two is: If you were empowered from a younger age, what would that have looked like? What are the tools that would have been in your toolkit? And how can you sharpen those tools today? Because you can't go back in time but how you can make sure that those tools are in every single young woman's toolkit possible. And then question three is: Are you a collaborator or are you a sole worker? The reason I asked that question is because if you are a collaborator, I would urge every woman to find other women and other individuals who are passionate about the same causes because you will be so much more powerful together like you are doing with this podcast. It is so critical to collaborate in vessels to promote information sharing. If you are a sole worker, that's cool too, but really lean into that and understanding what systems that you need to empower your own voice. And those are my three questions that I want to leave everyone with. 

[00:24:04] Shreya: I love your emphasis on community and collaboration. Thank you so much for being here today speaking to us. I know I speak for the both of us as hosts and also for all the listeners to say that was incredibly inspiring and engaging. And Paniz, I'll let you wrap up. 

[00:24:21] Paniz: So as we talked about, we have a little contest going on. So at the end of every podcast episode, if you stayed this far, we have a secret word that will later lead to a surprise. So the secret word for this podcast is ‘eggs,’ which relates back to everything we talked about.

[00:24:35] So thank you so much for coming on this podcast Shania. We are really inspired by you. And please go follow her and follow her work because she is amazing. And thank you all for joining today and we'll see you at the next episode. 

[00:24:48] Shania: Thank you so much for having me. This was so lovely.

[00:24:51] Jacqueline: Thanks for listening to SHE SOARS. If you liked this episode, please share it on social media, connect with us in the comments or give us a like.

[00:25:00] Paniz: Make sure to catch our next episode by subscribing to our channel and following us wherever you get your podcasts.

[00:25:06] Jacqueline: Follow @CARECanada on Instagram for updates on our show and the project.

[00:25:11] Paniz: SHE SOARS stands for Sexual and reproductive Health and Economic empowerment, Supporting Out-of-school Adolescent girls’ Rights and Skills in Kenya, Uganda and Zambia.

[00:25:20] Jacqueline: The project is funded by Global Affairs Canada. Check out our global partner organizations: The Center for Reproductive Rights and Restless Development for even more project updates. 

[00:25:30] Paniz: Thanks again for listening. Until next time!